In a fiery exchange that left viewers stunned, Kevin O’Leary, the sharp-tongued businessman and investor, recently clashed with a CNN host over the topic of criminal justice reform and presidential pardons. The confrontation, which took place during a live interview, saw O’Leary deliver a no-holds-barred reality check that quickly shifted the tone of the debate.

The discussion began when the CNN host questioned O’Leary about the fairness of the pardons issued by former President Donald Trump, particularly focusing on his use of executive power to grant clemency. The host suggested that some of these pardons might have been politically motivated and raised concerns about the effectiveness of the current justice system. However, O’Leary didn’t mince words in his response.

“Look, there’s only one way to serve justice in this country,” O’Leary said with his signature bluntness. “If you’re a criminal and you go to jail, it’s because you broke the law. You’re goddamn right.”

He continued, addressing the complexities surrounding the justice system and the power of presidential pardons. “If you don’t like the fact that someone gets pardoned, then remove the ability for an executive to pardon anyone. Then we don’t have to talk about this anymore. Simple as that.”

But the CNN host wasn’t backing down. He countered O’Leary’s remarks by suggesting that the U.S. justice system disproportionately impacts minority communities, particularly Black Americans, who have been wrongfully convicted or unfairly sentenced. The host pointed to the First Step Act as evidence of systemic issues and called for more comprehensive reform, including steps beyond the initial legislation.

O’Leary, however, wasn’t phased by this line of reasoning. He interrupted the host, saying, “It’s not that simple. You’re acting like it’s some kind of binary issue.” O’Leary then brought the conversation back to the issue of personal responsibility. “If you don’t want to go to jail, don’t break the law. It’s that simple. But you want to make it complicated.”

The host, undeterred, brought up the injustices faced by many Black individuals in the criminal justice system, some of whom have spent years incarcerated for crimes they didn’t commit. He argued that the existence of the First Step Act and the need for continued reform highlighted the flaws in the system.

But O’Leary pushed back, offering a critique of the entire premise. “Every one of them? Absolutely not,” he said, emphasizing that not all people in the justice system are innocent. “There are people who have committed crimes, and that’s why we have a system to deal with that.”

The tension escalated as the host pointed out that the First Step Act, while addressing federal policies, was only the beginning. There are over 1.1 million Black men still incarcerated, he said, signaling the need for further reform. O’Leary dismissed the argument, stating that if the justice system was so flawed, the solution was clear: “Remove the power to pardon, and solve the problem. It’s that simple.”

While the conversation ended with some unresolved tension, O’Leary’s brutal reality check highlighted a key divide in the ongoing debate surrounding criminal justice reform. His perspective—emphasizing personal accountability and the need for a simplified system—clashed with the host’s push for more equitable reforms and systemic change.

Regardless of which side of the debate one falls on, O’Leary’s fiery defense of his position is a reminder that complex issues often require stark and unyielding viewpoints. Whether or not his take on the criminal justice system is the answer, his willingness to challenge the host’s narrative with such brutal honesty has made this exchange one for the books.